The Blessed Balance Between Reason and Religion – part 2: Framing the whole thing

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11 Responses

  1. “Muslims were colonized by Western powers, often for centuries, and all that period they were told that their religion was inferior and barbaric.”
    As fas as I know, the Mohamedanes made some conquests too. People living in that countries were not told that their religion was valuable in itself.
    According to the Mohamedanes, -and you?- history started after their empire was at it largest.

  2. Ha! Muslims would nèver tell non-muslims their religion is inferior. Noooo! And Muslim conquests? What are you talking about!

    Let’s just blame western colonization and the media. Never change a winning team.

  3. McCain says:

    This is a very good post. Also try this:

    Muslims Offended by an Inconvenient Truth
    http://www.rightlinx.com/?p=208

  4. martijn says:

    @ Frans:
    You might have a point, but that doesn’t change the fact that colonialism (or post-colonialism) might still play a role as well.
    @Peter:
    Well given your superficial reaction, I would say, with regard to the media, I rest my case. But of course two things play here:
    * I tried to analyze what might be the drive for Muslims; of course you did not read that because in your mind it would be a mistake to argue from their perspective (please don’t read my post about Samir A.’s video then).
    * I’m really so sorry that I also put the blame outside the Muslims. I know that is very politically incorrect and I’m very sorry if I offended you in some way or another.
    @McCain
    Thank you. Don’t give me links in this manner, too often. My spam filter might see you as a spammer and move your comments to the spam-list. Since I never check that list, but simple delete all spam message (there are about 200 a day) it might get lost. Next time, just give me an excerpt of your post with one link (as you did now). That also is better for discussion I think.

  5. Of course colonialism (or post-colonialism) still plays a role as well. As do Russia, China, arab-turkish antagonism etc etc.
    The point is that colonialism is taken out of this range to explain away islamic fascism and blaming “the west”. Last week I actually read a Dutch professor blaming the Shia-Sunni violence in Iraq on the west….
    A pity you do not answer my question. In dealing with muslims as well as with islamofascism it is a crucial one in my view.

    Off topic: your comment-form has a very strange behavior. It starts with a normal size but whilye typing is takes all widht of the screen and more than that. Repeated use of F11 helps but this behavior camight explain part of the typos here.

  6. martijn says:

    @Frans:
    What was your question? This one: According to the Mohamedanes, -and you?- history started after their empire was at it largest.?

    What does it matter? But if you want to know…history started at the big bang.

  7. martijn says:

    @Frans:
    Ow ja je opmerking over het commentaarvenster. Dank daarvoor alleen ik heb totaal geen problemen daarmee en dat ook nog niet van anderen gehoord. Ik zou ook niet weten hoe ik het moet veranderen. Misschien moet je het eerst maar in word/kladblok schrijven en dan hierin plakken.

  8. Never tell me what is in my mind, Martijn. I think I am the only one who can speak with authority about what’s in my mind (I don’t believe in God). Because it’s, like, MY mind, do you understand?

    I don’t get your resting your media case. Have I somehow unwittingly proven your point that the media is to blame?

    Pope says something about islam, media reports, Muslims attack Christians. I can see only one guilty party and it’s not the media. How about you?

  9. martijn says:

    @Peter
    Bingo, I was hoping you would say that about what’s in your mind. I have tried over and over again to make that clear to you in other entries here, but you did not seem to get it. Now you seem to do. Let’s make a deal: I leave you with what you think, and you leave me with my thoughts and we only react on what we say or write.

    Have you read and see the reports on the Pope’s speech of the Western media and the Arab media? You are not going to tell me that they give a good excerpt of his speech, are you? They didn’t, not before Muslims made all this fuss and they still don’t. So no, I don’t see only one guilty party. At least three (in random order): the Pope and his advisors, the Media (notwithstanding the few that a good job) and Muslim leaders and their followers (nothwithstanding the people who don’t agree with them).

  10. Nope, you’re wrong. If people start attacking people because of something that was written or said, there’s only one guilty party and that’s the people attacking other people.

  1. October 13, 2006

    […] Zo schreef ene Frans Groenendijk over deze entry (één na laatste quote van onderen is afkomstig van zijn weblog) over de Paus en zijn uitspraken: Hij schreef er over met een ondertoontje van “kijk nu toch eens wat al die in zwart-wit termen denkende mensen allemaal schrijven over de islam” maar in zijn haast om de mohammedanen (de volgelingen van die akelige man dus – niet iedereen die zichzelf moslim noemt) gelijk te geven schrijft hij zelf over de “domme, beledigende en inaccurate boodschap van de paus”. Met neerbuigend afgeven op Ratzinger is blijkbaar niets mis! […]

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