The Blessed Balance Between Reason and Religion – part 3: Politics of Reason, Rage and Religion

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9 Responses

  1. The real losers here might be those Muslims who, although they might feel offended, hate the use of violence and prefer the fellow Muslims to tackle other painful and pertitent cases such as Darfur or the Hudud laws or the Andijan massacre.

    You mean those Muslims we hear many stories about but who are somehow extremely difficult to capture on film or tape, like the Monster of Loch Ness? THOSE Muslims?

  2. martijn says:

    Well they might be the Monster of Loch Ness for you, but a little survey on the web or in real life, shows that there are enough. You might better ask why you don’t hear and see them. See no good, hear no good?

  3. Yeah, that’s it, Martijn, I don’t want to KNOW about those enlightened Muslims because that would disturb my anti-Islamic, xenophobic agenda.

    I don’t hear ’em because they don’t speak out, Martijn. At least, that’s what I have believed for a long time. Now I am beginning to believe I am not hearing ’em because they don’t EXIST.

    Where on the web are they? Do you mean the people behind http://www.wijblijvenhier.nl? I certainly hope not because I consider those fellows to be even more dangerous than the clownns of the Hofstadgroep.

    I want to see a massive protest demonstration of moderate Muslims to support freedom of speech and religion, condemn Islamist violence and so on. No excuses, no blaming Israel and the US, just a very clear demonstration in favour of freedom and tolerance.

    Then I’ll acknowledge the existence of moderate, pacifist Muslims.

  4. martijn says:

    You want a demonstration on your terms? That’s an interesting definition of freedom and tolerance.

  5. morgahi says:

    I appreciate your approach Martijn regarding the whole debate on the Pope-speech issue.
    An element which is less emphasised in your discussion is the religion-political context in which the whole thing is happening. The Byzantine emperor Paleologus that Pope brings in favour of his arguments was already under siege of the emerging ‘mulsim forces’ of the time. What one shuld expect of such an emporer to say? Similarly the emotional muslim response to the Popal speech shows another ‘siege mentality’ in the times of the ‘war against terrorism’. And donot forget the reactions at a similar wavelength to the ‘Noorani-Siddiqui affair’ and the ‘Donner-shariah uproar’, reflecting a ‘siege mentality’ in some circles of Dutch society that could not work out the societal traumas of past couple of years.

  6. martijn says:

    @ morgahi
    Thanks, that’s a useful and relevant contribution. This ‘under siege mentality’ is probably the reason why religious movements are able to bring many people on the streets and let them do what they do.

  7. “You want a demonstration on your terms? That’s an interesting definition of freedom and tolerance.”

    You speak in riddles. I never said that is my definition of freedom and tolerance at all.

    “some circles of Dutch society that could not work out the societal traumas of past couple of years.”

    How about a bit of elevation, mr. or mrs Morgahi?

  8. morgahi says:

    ‘How about a bit of elevation, mr. or mrs Morgahi?’
    Luckily, I haven’t to beg for it!

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